tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post7297797396450751895..comments2023-08-03T07:33:41.442-07:00Comments on Idealistic Pragmatist: A belated comment on Jason Cherniak's final goodbyeIdealistic Pragmatisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-11766315069549385592008-10-25T06:43:00.000-07:002008-10-25T06:43:00.000-07:00Really, though, look at the leadership -- it's had...Really, though, look at the leadership -- it's had people like John Turner and Paul Martin as leaders and prime ministers.<BR/><BR/>Great Canadians, accomplished men, but their main goal was to get to the top job -- once they got it, they had no idea what to do with it.Ben (The Tiger in Exile)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15343544805893081216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-50534784515385215222008-10-24T19:48:00.000-07:002008-10-24T19:48:00.000-07:00I must assume that you mean there may be New Democ...<I>I must assume that you mean there may be New Democrats who think like Jason.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, not who "think like Jason" in general. I mean specifically are there New Democrats who are constantly thinking about "moving up in the party." They must exist, but I'm glad I don't know them.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-32725564315085190732008-10-24T18:43:00.000-07:002008-10-24T18:43:00.000-07:00I saw it when I was in my year at law school in Ha...I saw it when I was in my year at law school in Halifax.<BR/><BR/>The Young Liberals were all about networking and moving up -- apparatchiks in training. (The true believers on the political left were in the NDP.)<BR/><BR/>I think it's also more that the Natural Governing Party draws the ambitious. One fishes where the fishes are...Ben (The Tiger in Exile)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15343544805893081216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-74965734410455778872008-10-24T16:36:00.000-07:002008-10-24T16:36:00.000-07:00IP, the Jurist has a related post. http://accident...IP, the Jurist has a related post. <BR/><BR/>http://accidentaldeliberations.blogspot.com/2008/10/true-liberal-visionary.htmlGreghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06509182679650412982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-34436092246296774832008-10-24T15:06:00.000-07:002008-10-24T15:06:00.000-07:00"(Are there New Democrats who think like this? The..."(Are there New Democrats who think like this? There must be.)"<BR/><BR/>I must assume that you mean there may be New Democrats who think like Jason.<BR/><BR/>My answer is that they are in the Liberal Party.Skinny Dipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12818163310102120130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-72916511391958409392008-10-24T14:40:00.000-07:002008-10-24T14:40:00.000-07:00Cherniak finally caught on that the LPC is a top d...Cherniak finally caught on that the LPC is a top down, "elitist" party, which places no value on mass membership involvement and direction. It is a vehicle for power for the few who run the show from the top. As someone without much intelligence, a childish and big ego, and sad lust for power, Cherniak is hitching up with the bad red machine.<BR/><BR/>Take the upcoming LP leadership race: it will not mobilize the membership to discuss the serious crisis in the Party and to collectively decide upon a new political direction. Instead, and predictably, it will be a top down affair in which the few remaining Liberal believers will get to choose between Coke (Ignatieff), Pepsi (Rae), or Red Bull (Manley) with the lame hope that a symbolic leadership change will make any difference at all.<BR/><BR/>What is pathetic is that Cherniak declared in public that he wants to get in on the joke that is the LPC.<BR/><BR/>He never was and never will be "progressive".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-29705343439705537432008-10-24T13:48:00.000-07:002008-10-24T13:48:00.000-07:00Why do people always think jason Cherniak embodies...<I>Why do people always think jason Cherniak embodies the Liberal Party?</I><BR/><BR/>Can you point at the line where I said that, Antonio? 'Cause it's invisible to me.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-22979474771246354612008-10-24T13:36:00.000-07:002008-10-24T13:36:00.000-07:00I suspect every political party has ambitious peop...I suspect every political party has ambitious people in it. Sure, lots of us join up to help make a difference, to drive policy and actions that are important to us.<BR/><BR/>But frankly, there are a lot of people who want to be politicians out there, who are studying political science (for example) because they want to be prime minister or, a cabinet member, or a puppet master someday.<BR/><BR/>The Liberal party may have a higher percentage of those folks (as compared to idealists and worker bees) because they are seen as one of the parties most likely to form government. I'm sure the Conservatives have their share as well, even if it hasn't been spoken about openly.<BR/><BR/>It's also one reason why we see politicians crossing the floor between parties - they're not conviction based, they're opportunity based. (Stronach and Emerson being prime examples. Garth Turner too - given his green sympathies, he could easily have become the first Green MP, but he went from one power center to another instead.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-57714959152256702682008-10-24T13:21:00.000-07:002008-10-24T13:21:00.000-07:00Why do people always think jason Cherniak embodies...Why do people always think jason Cherniak embodies the Liberal Party?<BR/><BR/>I think he made the right decision. Blogs are held in contempt by many party officials across the board.<BR/><BR/>All Jason's blog did was get him in trouble. He is a sensible guy. A riding President.<BR/><BR/>He decided to pick one of the two. I think he made the right decision.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04018582124108708061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-65277128244460893062008-10-24T12:47:00.000-07:002008-10-24T12:47:00.000-07:00In fact Jason has never hidden his personal ambiti...In fact Jason has never hidden his personal ambition--he was so child-like and ingenuous about it that, to tell the truth, I thought it was rather charming.Dr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-31634513594063400742008-10-24T11:41:00.000-07:002008-10-24T11:41:00.000-07:00When I was the President of the UWO New Democrats,...When I was the President of the UWO New Democrats, I had the great fortune to be able to meet a lot of young New Democrats, Liberals, and Tories. For the most part, I found members of all parties to be honest, intelligent, respectful, and motivated by the desire to improve their communities.<BR/><BR/>That said, I also met a lot of young people (especially in the Liberal Party) who seemed to be in it mostly for networking opportunities and/or personal ambition. Mostly young pre-professional types pursuing careers in business and law. I always found that to be very distasteful.<BR/><BR/>I think that it happens in every party to a certain extent, but I do get the impression that the Liberals are something of a magnet for people who are involved in politics for largely selfish reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-25994542879216059372008-10-24T11:22:00.000-07:002008-10-24T11:22:00.000-07:00Ben,I guess I'm less surprised by the fact that Mr...Ben,<BR/><BR/>I guess I'm less surprised by the fact that Mr. Cherniak thinks that way, and more surprised that the personal ambition is laid bare for everyone to see rather than covered over with rhetoric about the good his party can do for the country.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-84429778054025685882008-10-24T11:03:00.000-07:002008-10-24T11:03:00.000-07:00I agree with your sentiment, but I am not at all s...I agree with your sentiment, but I am not at all surprised that people think this way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com