tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post115584347745041082..comments2023-08-03T07:33:41.442-07:00Comments on Idealistic Pragmatist: Choosing a Liberal candidate: an outsider's viewIdealistic Pragmatisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1156174988514002732006-08-21T08:43:00.000-07:002006-08-21T08:43:00.000-07:00west end bound,Not really, at least not by my stan...west end bound,<BR/><BR/>Not really, at least not by my standards. People have said that Gerard Kennedy is supposedly the furthest left of the candidates, but I went to see him speak in the spring and <A HREF="http://idealisticpragmatist.blogspot.com/2006/04/canadas-kennedy.html" REL="nofollow">walked away shrugging</A>.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1156108910438143962006-08-20T14:21:00.000-07:002006-08-20T14:21:00.000-07:00Being a relative new-comer to Canadian politics - ...Being a relative new-comer to Canadian politics - as I am in the process of immigrating - is there any one of the Libs running for the Leadership who is the most "left-leaning"? Listening to the only US-televised debate on CSPAN Martha Hall Findlay impressed me the most. Any thoughts?West End Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05757317517075393438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155913624517702552006-08-18T08:07:00.000-07:002006-08-18T08:07:00.000-07:00The Liberals lack the socialist links that the soc...The Liberals lack the socialist links that the social-democratic parties of Europe enjoy, and they lack the consistent liberalism of most liberal parties. It's not just that they're a middle party, they actually have no unifying ideological principles. While you could say that this means they're more policy-focused, you can hardly say the Liberals are the clearest or most predictable of the major parties on their policy platform. And without some goal or commitment to principle, a centrist party will inevitably be a collection of people whose only common ground is that they want to be in the cabinet.Phugebrinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10851424524869250015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155868054848521812006-08-17T19:27:00.000-07:002006-08-17T19:27:00.000-07:00Michael,Well, as you know, I have no dog in this f...Michael,<BR/><BR/>Well, as you know, I have no dog in this fight, so it's entirely irrelevant what sort of impression Ignatieff has made on me. That said, he certainly seems like the most right-wing candidate of the bunch, especially now that Bevilacqua is out of the running.<BR/><BR/>Do you see Ignatieff's ideologies in the three areas you name as being further to the left than those of the other candidates? I'm not being snotty, just curious.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155866492292816332006-08-17T19:01:00.000-07:002006-08-17T19:01:00.000-07:00First of all I would label his domestic and econom...First of all I would label his domestic and economic policy as centre-left in nature. Unfortunately all of the spotlight gets focused on foreign policy and his views taken out of context. On my blog, in responding to an anonymous commentor on four foreign policy issues, I refuted them. In essence when you look at the principles he used they are fundamentally small-l liberal in nature and fit very much in the centre-left of the political perspective.<BR/><BR/>Your point about defining centre left is a good one. Such definitions are unfortunately rather subjective in nature. If we want to pursue this further then perhaps a common understanding of "centre-left" that we both agree upon is good and then we can analyze Ignatieff (and I guess myself) further. However, defining it cannot be a list of what centre-left is not. We need to approach it from a more philosophical approach breaking it down into at least three areas: the economy, foreign policy, social programmes.Progressive Maritimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324167275786533054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155862679124793762006-08-17T17:57:00.000-07:002006-08-17T17:57:00.000-07:00A favourable and interesting look at the Liberals ...A favourable and interesting look at the Liberals way of thinking. Great post!bzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834025855715577601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155862247878803472006-08-17T17:50:00.000-07:002006-08-17T17:50:00.000-07:00There's also the possibility that the vocabulary a...There's also the possibility that the vocabulary around ideology has become so watered down, so twisted and spun, that many (including but not limited to Liberals) really have no clue what constitutes "left", "right" or "centre" anymore. Witness Ignatieff's "Empire-lite" brand of foreign policy being trumpeted as some kind of "new humanitarianism".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155861549732883182006-08-17T17:39:00.000-07:002006-08-17T17:39:00.000-07:00Michael,Interesting. Perhaps it's our definitions...Michael,<BR/><BR/>Interesting. Perhaps it's our definitions of "centre-left" that differ, then. Or do you regard Ignatieff's positions on, say, the erstwhile decision for the U.S. to invade Iraq, or his current position on Israel, to be "centre-left" positions?Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155859912078495132006-08-17T17:11:00.000-07:002006-08-17T17:11:00.000-07:00I actually would consider myself an ideologue firs...I actually would consider myself an ideologue first. Policy matters most to me followed closely by leadership ability. Ideologically I see almost directly eye to eye with Ignatieff on everything.Progressive Maritimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324167275786533054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155845701631513162006-08-17T13:15:00.000-07:002006-08-17T13:15:00.000-07:00RC,Well, I don't completely agree with you--I thin...RC,<BR/><BR/>Well, I don't completely agree with you--I think pragmatism can be taken to a point where it <I>is</I> unprincipled. And when ideology becomes <I>completely irrelevant</I>, I'd say that's well into that range. Still, there's a big difference between saying "I don't agree with this candidate about everything, but I'm still supporting him for x and y reasons" and not knowing or caring where you stand. I think we on the edges of the spectrum can sometimes miss that nuance.<BR/><BR/>Also: the "only sane way to be," eh? Well, I hope you enjoy my insane ramblings, then. *grin*Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1155845304343167432006-08-17T13:08:00.000-07:002006-08-17T13:08:00.000-07:00Given that the Liberals aren't hampered by strict ...Given that the Liberals aren't hampered by strict ideological lines the way other parties are, as you say, ideology simply isn't really a major factor. While other parties have to work within the box of their ideology, the Libs benefit from more of a Venn diagram approach - they can straddle the right and left. <BR/><BR/>I know many see this as being "unprincipled" - i just see it as being the only sane way to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com