tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post113163552312582746..comments2023-08-03T07:33:41.442-07:00Comments on Idealistic Pragmatist: Remembrance Day: an outsider's perspectiveIdealistic Pragmatisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1163033288828468572006-11-08T17:48:00.000-07:002006-11-08T17:48:00.000-07:00Well, I wear a poppy for a few reasons:1. To remem...Well, I wear a poppy for a few reasons:<BR/><BR/>1. To remember that the two world wars were a terrible fact of life for our ancestors, so that hopefully we won't repeat it (kinda a spin-off of "those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it").<BR/><BR/>2. To help the Royal Canadian Legion raise money for its <A HREF="http://www.legion.ca/asp/docs/about/bg_e.asp#community" REL="nofollow">charity work</A>.<BR/><BR/>It may be interesting for you to know that while I was in school, the day before Remembrance Day everybody in the school would gather around, pictures of the war (some of them were gruesome) were shown and the effects of things like mustard gas were read. Basically, the goal was to pound into people's head that war is not a desirable outcome.<BR/><BR/>Well, hope that helps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1132169589035538762005-11-16T12:33:00.000-07:002005-11-16T12:33:00.000-07:00Danté,That may be what it means to a lot of people...Danté,<BR/><BR/>That may be what it means to a lot of people, and I respect that. But you don't speak for everyone. I asked an awful lot of Canadians this year about the meaning and function of Remembrance Day, and I got responses from at least four separate viewpoints. And people representing each of these viewpoints were all quite insistent that their viewpoint was representative of the core meaning of the day.<BR/><BR/>Like I said to Q. Pheevr above, I'm becoming convinced that there are a lot of different ideas of what the day is about, but everybody assumes everybody else is seeing it in exactly the same way they are.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1132155539691324432005-11-16T08:38:00.000-07:002005-11-16T08:38:00.000-07:00It's not about you. It's not about people seeing y...It's not about you. It's not about people seeing you with a poppy on and thinking, "gee, that person really thinks a lot about the horrors of war, aren't they great!"<BR/><BR/>It's for the veterans, damn it. It's so they can see people wearing a poppy and recognizing the hell they went through day after day in the mud and the cold and the blood for our right to be free and happy. It's so they know that they aren't forgotten, and that yes, it wasn't in vain.Dantéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905072530510599506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1132088729654116402005-11-15T14:05:00.000-07:002005-11-15T14:05:00.000-07:00AP,Yeah, I can definitely see not wanting to do so...AP,<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I can definitely see not wanting to do something just because everybody else is doing it. I wonder if there's a way of turning the rote ritual part of it into something more meaningful, for those who do think there's some merit in Remembrance Day.<BR/><BR/>Aaron,<BR/><BR/>You're right that I didn't grow up here. On the other hand, I'm also not a fan of doing something just because it's what you grew up with. I suppose it's the "pragmatist" part of my idealistic pragmatist. I've been questioning pretty much everything I grew up with ever since I could think, including Christmas (which I deliberately stopped celebrating a few years ago) and Halloween (which I still celebrate, but I know exactly why I do).Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1132032758835193432005-11-14T22:32:00.000-07:002005-11-14T22:32:00.000-07:00From what I recall, you weren't born in Canada - w...From what I recall, you weren't born in Canada - were you? Maybe it's something you just grow up with, like Christmas and Halloween.AWGBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16639336770467631285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1132006481171388002005-11-14T15:14:00.000-07:002005-11-14T15:14:00.000-07:00...errr... 'result' that is....errr... 'result' that is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1132006437900723912005-11-14T15:13:00.000-07:002005-11-14T15:13:00.000-07:00IP, I agree with much of what you say regarding Re...IP, I agree with much of what you say regarding Remembrance Day. And frankly, I'm not afraid to admit that I haven't worn a poppy in about 20 years. For me to wear a poppy would make make me feel awkward. These events are so unrelated to my current life; I feel that to wear a poppy would be rather hypocritical. I simply cannot endorse the wearing of poppies or the observing of silence because <I>I'm supposed to</I>. This sad, I still permit myself to reflect on how truly thankful I am that my country is what it is today as a rulst of past roles in war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1131921486908377762005-11-13T15:38:00.000-07:002005-11-13T15:38:00.000-07:00Trevor,I actually hadn't realized before this year...Trevor,<BR/><BR/>I actually hadn't realized before this year that Remembrance Day was a general Commonwealth holiday, so it's not a silly thing to bring up at all. (Some of the most basic things weren't clear to me before I started asking questions about it, and all my asking really cleared a lot of things up. I'm honestly not sure why I waited so long, either.)<BR/><BR/>Your reasons for buying and wearing a poppy sound like they're probably pretty typical: a combination of tradition, respect, and guilt.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1131755440277742442005-11-11T17:30:00.000-07:002005-11-11T17:30:00.000-07:00See www.smalldeadanimals.com.See www.smalldeadanimals.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1131741513481890762005-11-11T13:38:00.000-07:002005-11-11T13:38:00.000-07:00Q,A very clear and thoughtful response, thank you....Q,<BR/><BR/>A very clear and thoughtful response, thank you.<BR/><BR/>The only thing I would take issue with is your statement about the core meaning of the day. I got into a discussion about this the other day with some of my friends, and several of them stated with absolute conviction that the *real* meaning of the day (and of the wearing of the poppy) is *not* about honouring soldiers, but about reflecting on the horrors of war. Honestly, the more I ask questions about this, the more I become convinced that everybody has a different idea of what the day is about, but assumes everybody else is thinking exactly the same thoughts they are.<BR/><BR/>And, okay, some people have stated that they're fine with observing the day in whatever way is meaningful to them and aren't bothered by what other people might think. But I'm not comfortable with that for myself when a large part of the tradition of the day is about wearing the poppy. If I'm going to participate in a collective displaying of a symbol, I want a lot more clarity on what that symbol actually means to most people.<BR/><BR/>I do think a lot of those ways people observe the day are important, though, and probably don't figure prominently enough in my life. So I've been thinking I should find a way to observe it in a more private way that's at least meaningful to me. This year has been all about figuring things out, but I think I'll try that next year.Idealistic Pragmatisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18296481430598981678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1131739674275528202005-11-11T13:07:00.000-07:002005-11-11T13:07:00.000-07:00Well, I'm not a CBC, either, but I've decided not ...Well, I'm not a CBC, either, but I've decided not to let that stop me from holding forth.<BR/><BR/>I think Remembrance Day does mean different things to different people, but the core of it is honouring those Canadians who have fought--or otherwise served--in wars. Me, I happen to believe that one of the best ways of honouring them would be to do our best to make sure that others will not have to go through the horrors of war as they have. Not everyone feels this way, though, and so we have a motley assortment of militaristic, patriotic, and pacifist symbols and sentiments. I wear the poppy, and I basically trust that people will not read any more into it than the core meaning of the day.<BR/><BR/>A colleague at my university writes:<BR/><I>In recent years, there has been a marked increase in student participation in the observation of Remembrance Day </I>[...].<I> Until the early seventies the university closed on 11 November, and it was students who pressured the administration to end this, arguing that it was a bellicose gesture; it is ironic that it is from students, and only from students, that I hear calls for the suspension of classes from 10.30 to 11.15 a.m.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think the student body has become so much more bellicose since the time of the Vietnam War; rather, I hope that the change in attitude mostly reflects the realization that it is possible to honour those who have died in war regardless of one's opinions about whether they should have been fighting in the first place.<BR/><BR/>As for why the emphasis on veterans of the two world wars, I think there are two good answers and one bad one. The good answers are (1) that Remembrance Day began as the anniversary of the end of World War I, and (2) that these wars are the oldest ones still in living memory. The bad one is that these wars are perceived as having a moral clarity that the more recent ones lack.Q. Pheevrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07168025023862285721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12426618.post-1131729468403387252005-11-11T10:17:00.000-07:002005-11-11T10:17:00.000-07:00I'd suggest this editorial from the Toronto Star t...I'd suggest this <A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1131663011813&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795" REL="nofollow">editorial</A> from the Toronto Star today (you may need to freely register to read it.. but its well worth it)<BR/><BR/>It may help answer your questions.Oxford County Liberalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181314055142726735noreply@blogger.com